Various emails and associated threads from researchers:

• From Donna Jean Glasgow; 2/21:
  • I have spent a great deal of time this weekend systematically looking at Mitchell, Latham/Lathram families, and Baldwin families, and I have still not been able to make any connections.  I was working on the assumption that Rebecca Mitchell was a Baldwin and that she had hooked up with a Maness before she married Layton Mitchell and had Solomon.  However, I could not find a Rebecca Baldwin from the right time frame among any of those families that were unaccounted for.  I did determine that she cannot be the Rebecca Baldwin that married John Sturgill or the Rebecca Baldwin that married John Alder (the latter being Irish Baldwins that wound up in Hawkins Co., TN).

    I may never know what happened to my brother or who the heck Solomon Baldwin’s parents were!

    I do think it is fascinating that so many Halls married so many Elliotts (there were no less than five Hall/Elliott marriages among the children of Masias Hall and his brother, Reuben.  Also, there were two Sturgill marriages, which is very interesting.  Sure wish I knew what Sturgill’s beef was with Solomon!   Miles Sturgill was the son of Elijah Sturgill, who was born in 1805 in Ashe Co., NC, so I wouldn’t be surprised to learn the families knew each other from way back.

    Like I said earlier, Reuben Hall, William Maners, and a “Brother Stegen” (Sturgeon, another name for Sturgill) were all at the Stony Creek Baptist Church in 1813, where “melungeons” were mentioned in the minutes.  I just feel like I am tripping all over the people that are related to Solomon, but I just can’t put it all together without records!

    I need to research the Andrew and Kittury Mitchell along with the two William Mitchells that showed up in the 1820 Grayson County census along with “Laten” Mitchell.  I also need to account for all the children (using their ages) in all the census years.  I still have plenty of work to do!

• From Donna Jean Glasgow; 2/15/2010:
  • I really do think Solomon has a connection with the Baldwins in the area.  I don’t think Stephen Baldwin could be any more than a cousin.  I hope Mitch is able to provide real evidence that Phoebe Baldwin was really a Mitchell.  We don’t even know for sure that Solomon WAS a half-brother to Andrew and Enoch Mitchell; that is only lore at this point.  Yet, there sure seems to be a connection between Solomon and the Mitchells, so I proceed as if they are half-brothers.  In that case, Phoebe Mitchell is a half-sister to Solomon, and she surely would not be marrying a brother of Solomon.  Perhaps she would marry a cousin, though.  To me that means that Solomon is NOT a son of Elisha Baldwin or a brother to Stephen.

    See what we have to go on?  Probabilities only, nothing concrete!  I have to rely on naming patterns, migration patterns, and a few clues, such as Maness DNA, “Old Regular Baptist” lay preacher, Floyd County constable (hearsay), naming patterns, and a legend in the family that there was “Cherokee,” which I interpret to mean a Melungeon heritage.  That’s not much to go on, but it’s SOMETHING.

    Too bad some of Russell county’s records, notably a deed book and a marriage record book, were destroyed along with miscellaneous court papers, in a fire which burned a large portion of the center of Lebanon, including the courthouse, in 1872.

    I wish I had access to some land records!  Surely Solomon Baldwin had land in Virginia.  Of course, I have only the internet to rely upon.

• From Roy Haas; 2/14/2010:
  • I ran across Stephen and Phoebe several years ago in Russell Co. and tried to work them into our mystery. They were in a census there.
    However, I could not tie them into Solomon.  I think they are connected.  I think Solomon’s mother married Mitchell and the Baldwin kids grew up with the Mitchell’s in Russell and Floyd counties.
• From Donna Jean Glasgow; 2/14/2010:
  • This is the first time I have heard of Stephen Baldwin’s wife, Phoebe, being a Mitchell!  Do we have a source for that?  It is extremely interesting that Phoebe and Stephen Baldwin had children Rebecca and Solomon–but those are very popular names, (So was Noah).  I do believe these folks were naming their children, at least the earlier born ones, after family members.  I am especially interested in the name Alexander–Solomon’s oldest son.  There is an Alexander Maness, son of Isom Maness.  Alexander’s brother, Arthur Maness, had a son, John Baldwin Maness, born August 09, 1856 in Scott County, VA; died June 23, 1922 in Republic, Greene County, MO.

    I have done a thorough search for any snippets I can find on those Baldwins from Wilkes/Ash Counties in NC and Grayson/Russell County, VA.  I keep trying to make Rebecca, wife of Layton Mitchell, a Baldwin, but for the life of me, I cannot find any evidence of it.  She is certainly not the Rebecca Baldwin, daughter of Elijah Baldwin, who married John Sturgill.  Elijah Baldwin had a son, John, and I think it is interesting that Solomon Baldwin had children John, Rebecca, and Elijah.  However, Alexander was the oldest son, so his name is bound to be a clue.

    The Rebecca Baldwin who was a dau. of Elijah married John Sturgill in Grayson County about 1810 and and they moved to Scott County by February 22, 1812, where John Sturgill (any kin to Miles Sturgill?) appeared as a member of the Stony Creek Primitive Baptist Church. There was a William Maness who was also a member of that same church:

    Minutes of the Stony Creek Baptist Church
    AKA “Kilgore’s Church”

    http://melungeonhistoricalsociety.blogspot.com/

    August the 24 day 1805
    Church meeting held at Stony Creek. Received by experience and baptism William Manes.

    December the 28 day 1805
    Church meeting held at Stony Creek. The church unanimously agreed that a letter be sent to Br. Shadrick Estep to come and make satisfaction to this church for this transgression for she is grieved at him. Ordered that Brother John Brickey and Br. James Leath go and cite William Maner to attend at a church meeting appointed at Brother David Cock’s on Saturday next the 4th of January 1805 (1806) and that Br. James cite Sister Cloe Francis to attend said meeting, and that Brother David Cock cite Sister Carter to the meeting as witness against Maner. Ordered that Br. David Cox and James Leath cite Sarah Flannery to attend at the next meeting and be dealt with for her ill conduct. John Flannery, Moderator. Dismissed in order.

    January the 4 day 1806
    At a called meeting at Stony Creek this 4th day of January 1806, William Maner
    excommunicated for this church swearing, getting drunk and obstinacy in not appearing before the church when cited to trial. Robert Kilgore, Moderator. Dismissed in order.

    It is interesting to me that members of my Hall, Gibson, and Moores all had connections with that same church.

    Yes, it is interesting that Elisabeth Mitchell, who married Martin Sanders, named a son Noah Baldwin Sanders.

    I sure wish the Glade Hollow/Reeds Valley Primitive Baptist Churches had records of their membership!  A lot of the Glade Hollow membership went to Blackwater, Tennessee.  I have to keep reminding myself that the western part of NC became Tennessee, so it is very plausible that our Maness/Baldwins were at one point living from the very northeastern part of Tennessee.

    I’ll swear!  These Baldwin/Maness connections are more complex to research than my ancestors from Northern Ireland in the 1600s!  (I lucked out on finding their church, where all the records were still extant).

• From Mitch; 2/13/2010:
  • I’ve come across a couple clues that might mean something, but then again maybe not. You may already know this, but what the heck. We’ve heard the story about Solomon Baldwin possibly being related to Andrew Mitchell. I’ve heard from another Mitchell researcher that a Stephen Baldwin (Balden?) was married to Phoebe Mitchell…the younger sister of Andrew Mitchell from Russell County, Va. Also, Elizabeth Mitchell, Andrew’s oldest sister, had a son named Noah Baldwin Sanders, born 1842 in Russell County. Not sure what to make of it and I just found this out today. What do you think? Interesting, eh? I think there might be something there…not sure what just yet.

Here’s  an email message from cousin Donna Jean Glascow:

John Elliott Trial Proceedings Newsletter

Hi all you Solomon Baldwin/Sarah Elliott descendants!  I finally got my hands on the court records of John Elliott.  I was hoping it would give some details of the circumstances surrounding the murder, but it did not.  But nevertheless, it is a helpful document to have in your records.  It names friends of John Elliott who helped put up his bail money.

As far as the Maness heritage goes, I have (from the comfort of my own computer, of course) left no stone unturned in looking for a Maness/Baldwin or even Lawson/Baldwin connection, and I have found none.

I am intrigued by the names of John Wesley and Alexander that crop up in both Isham Maness (the one who drowned in the Clinch River) and Solomon Baldwin’s descendants.  Of course, lots of people were naming their children John Wesley in those days, particularly if they were Methodists.  I would guess that folks in that SE Virginia/Kentucky region did not start naming their children John Wesley until after Francis Asbury arrived in 1771, but the name may have caught on, kind of like the name “Lorenzo Dow” did, to later become commonplace whether the people were Methodists or not.  If Solomon Baldwin was Regular Baptist preacher like we think, why name a son John Wesley?  Would it make sense for Solomon to name a son (Alexander) after a half-brother by a father who obviously did not raise him?

It seems to me that somehow Isham Maness is the most likely candidate to be Solomon Baldwin’s father.  The name Isham (pronounced Isom, with a silent “h” as in graham), is originally an English surname and began in the locality of the River Ise in England (ham as in Birmingham, meaning hamlet or town).  The surname Maness in all its spellings could very well be Irish as in McManus, and I have found that to be fairly common in Ireland, but I have yet to find an Isham as a forename in Ireland.  That would suggest that if Isham Manes were Irish, that his family were at least not fresh Irish immigrants in the late 1700s.

I have certainly let my imagination run away with me, but have not found any documentation anywhere.  I have way more questions than answers, but now I am “stucker” than I was when Solomon was a Baldwin!

I just wanted to let you all know that because I have not written anything on this subject or corresponded lately, I have not let the matter rest.  I have spent literally hours poring over every scrap of information I can glean.  I just thought I’d shake the tree a little bit!

Have any of you had any luck at all?

Cheers,

Donna Jean Glasgow

Descendant of Matilda Baldwin

Several Baldwin cousins have agreed to meet in the Kitts Hill, OH area July 12 – 14, 2007. For some of us this will be the first time we have met. For others, it’s been a long time since we’ve seen each other.

Roy Haas suggests:

I suggest all of you reserve a room at Wheelersburg Comfort Inn at 8266 Ohio River Road in Wheelersburg.  Phone 740-574-1046.  This motel is about 15 miles from Kitts Hill but it is a good location with plenty of eating places within walking distance.  The motels closer to Ironton are not well located and not as modern.

I suggest we meet on Thursday at the motel to make plans to satisfy each of our wants and lay out a loose schedule for the 3 days.

Other suggestions:

Visit Hecla Cemetery and Kitts Hill Mamre Cemetery and Church.

Tour the Ironton area. Visit any Baldwin relatives available.  I will send email to those on my list but I do not expect a great response.  You should do the same if you have Baldwin contacts in or near Ironton.

Bring any pictures of the family you have.

Bring a lap top pc if you have one as we will probably want to share stories.

Bring a camera.

Please pass the word to any and all Baldwin cousins about this reunion.

Have you heard of the great PBS show History Detectives? They solve seemingly impossible historical mysteries – mysteries like our family surname DNA conundrum. I submitted a story idea to the show (per below). I’ll keep you all posted if anything develops.

Here is the story idea submitted to the show:

This is a story about routine genealogy research that has become anything but routine through modern DNA science revelations. It’s a story about families with hundreds of members who thought they were one surname but who indeed are another surname all together. It’s a story that is still steeped in mystery, a mystery that we would like to have solved.

As you know, the male Y chromosome passes as a sort of family brand ‘bar code stamp’ from father to son. This fact allows for genetic relationships (in the male line) to extend far back in time tens of thousands of years. Now, present day family trees are being supplemented with the indisputable hard evidence of DNA test results. So, not only is DNA being used to solve crimes, it is also being applied to genealogy research.

While looking for the ancestors of my GG Grandfather Solomon Baldwin of Floyd County, KY, I was asked and I agreed to participate in a Baldwin Family DNA Project. I received the test kit from Family Tree DNA (http://www.familytreedna.com) and sent my samples back for processing. I participated at the 37-marker level (more genetic markers reveal closer matches to modern ancestors). Processing DNA samples takes time 4-6 weeks. After I received the 37 marker test results, and using the FTDNA web site tools, I was able to look at the closest matches to my DNA. Of the 250+ samples (with more being added each week) that closely or exactly matched my DNA, none were Baldwin. Instead, the surname Manes/Maness/Maynor/Lawson matched perfectly.

Needless to say I was stunned. Since I am a Baldwin male my DNA represents the male Baldwin DNA far back in time. Since there were no Baldwin surname DNA matches but instead exact Maness/Lawson family matches one can only conclude that the true origin of Solomon and his descendents was as a Manes/Maness/Maynor/Lawson.

A cousin who also is a direct descendent of Solomon Baldwin submitted a second DNA sample. His results matched mine confirming the Maness/Lawson relationships.

This startling fact will cause us to reconsider not only who Solomon really was but also who we, as Baldwin family members, really are. Culturally of course we are Baldwin’s. But, now, we must contend with the new fact that we are genetically Maness or Lawson.

The questions we (the members of the Lawson, Maness, and Baldwin families) await answers to include: How did Solomon come to adopt the Baldwin surname? Who were his parents and where was he born? When, where, and how did the surname switch happen (for the Baldwin’s, for the Lawson’s, and the Maness’s)? What about the Maness and Lawson families? Are we all Lawson or Maness? Is there a recent common ancestor for our families?

My daughter is interested in this project. See below:

My name is Harmony Starr with the Genetic Science Learning Center at the University of Utah. I am John R. Baldwin’s daughter and have been following what he has been learning from the molecular genealogy work he has been doing. I am interested in producing a documentary film following my father’s experiences. Coincidentally, the Genetic Science Learning Center is producing a module for the website: Learn,Genetics about this very topic this year. This module will educate visitors on what molecular genealogy is, the type of data that is utilized and how to interpret it. The primary audience for the module will be high school students and teachers. However, our website is also heavily visited by members of the adult public. The Learn.Genetics website is the most widely disseminated genetics education website in the world. Peak usage in 2006 has been over 602,000 visits/month from 160 countries. This film would be a great opportunity to show visitors a real-life ‘textbook’ example of what one can learn via the molecular genealogy experience. The film would be mounted on the website but I anticipate that it could also be entered into documentary film festivals. My ultimate goal would be to send the film to Sundance. This is a compelling story that goes beyond the science of DNA and follows the journey of a family line as they learn their true origins. I can’t wait to get started. Next week I will be sending my father a web cam to record video journals as he does his work over e-mail or has thoughts to share. I will also be sending him a small digital video camera, tapes and a tripod to record any in-person visits he conducts.

Some reference links:
Maness DNA Project

http://manessdnaproject.home.comcast.net/

Baldwin DNA Blog

http://dev.thf.net/

The Genetic Science Learning Center

http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/

From Roy Haas: A friend sent me excerpts from court records of Russell Co. VA regarding John’s indictment and conviction for murder of a Mc Laughlin in 1816. He served 9 years, it seems. I wonder what the poem written in prison meant when referring to Elliott?

Click Here: Reference Link